This post may contain affiliate links.
Thanks for joining us for episode 73 of The Ancestral RDs podcast. If you want to keep up with our podcasts, subscribe in iTunes and never miss an episode! Remember, please send us your question if you’d like us to answer it on the show.
Today we are super excited to be interviewing Dr. Scott A. Mills.
Dr. Scott A. Mills is a Chiropractor with a passion for empowering others with the knowledge and tools needed to eliminate pain and improve the way they move.
He spent 6 years as a collegiate certified athletic trainer and has served thousands of patients across various practice settings for 15 years. Scott is regularly creating resources and programs like “The 2 Minute Fix” and “The Full Body Fix” to help people reach their maximum health potential by unlocking the physician within.
He is located in San Francisco with his wife Diane Sanfilippo. You can find him at DrScottAMills.com.
We know that a healthy diet is a natural way to help prevent and address health conditions. But did you know that there are techniques that work with your body to prevent and recover from pain and injury that also don’t involve drugs or surgery?
Join us today as Dr. Scott A. Mills talks about techniques he uses to relieve pain and restore healthy movement. You’ll also hear about the importance of stability for health and fitness, tips for a pre-workout warmup, and the role variety in movement and diet play in injury prevention and recovery.
Here are some of the questions we discussed with Dr. Scott:
- What are some of the most common injuries that you see in your clients?
- You talk a lot about something called soft tissue adhesions in your work. Can you describe to our listeners what those are and what causes them?
- Can you describe Active Release Technique, or ART, a little bit to us, what that is and how that works differently than something like foam rolling, or mobility, or any of those exercises people tend to do for those either injuries or immobility?
- What is nerve flossing and what conditions does that process benefit?
- Are there certain types of warm-ups that you think are definitely not good ideas to do before a training session? And if there’s better ideas, what are some of those?
- You posed a question/made a statement on Facebook that you thought building stability would be more important for health and fitness than building mobility. Can you describe that a little bit for our listeners what you meant and why you think that?
- How would you say a do-it-yourself program like “The Full Body Fix” compares to seeing a trained chiropractor in person?’
- If you do have an injury that you’re recovering from, is ART something that you have to do for life to keep that injury from re-exacerbating, or can you ever fully recover?
- Are there any other lifestyle factors that you see affecting injury prevention and recovery from intense workouts?
- Follow Dr. Scott on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook
- Full Body Fix
- 2 Minute Fix
Kelsey: Hi everyone. Welcome to episode 73 of The Ancestral RDs. I’m Kelsey Kinney and with me as always is Laura Schoenfeld.
Laura: I’m still getting used to that Kelsey Kinney thing.
Kelsey: I’m still getting used to it, too.
Laura: Whenever you say it, I’m kind of just like, wait, what?
Kelsey: Yeah, who is this?
Laura: I know. It’s funny, next time I intro, you’re going to have to remind me to say that because I feel like it’s just ingrained in my head after the last four years that your Kelsey Marsksteiner.
Kelsey: Oh yeah, it’s bizarre. But how are you doing, Laura?
Laura: I’m good. I’m just kind of mentally trying to recover from a bit of a whirlwind travel weekend.
Laura: I flew up to Indiana this weekend to see my boyfriend who lives in, he’s technically in Ohio, but he’s literally the northwest corner if you look at the corner of Ohio, that is his town basically. He’s very close to Indiana so we went to Indianapolis for the weekend to see a concert. We saw a band called “NeedToBreathe” which I’m assuming most people are not familiar with them, but they’re a southern rock kind of like, they’re not a Christian band per se, but they have Christian themed songs. Sometimes they’re on Christian radio. I joke that they’re like the Christian “Kings of Leon.” That’s what they sound like. They’re actually a really good band.
This is the second time I’ve seen them play. It was the first time my boyfriend had seen them live. We had wanted to see them together, and the Raleigh show that I saw just happened to the same as his first day of back to school because he’s a teacher. We were like no, I really want to go to this concert! So I was looking around at the tour and I saw that they playing in Indiana. I was like oh that’s only a couple hours from his house, we can maybe make a weekend out of it.
Laura: Most of our visits so far have been kind of longer, at least a few days, or even like weeks.
Laura: Two weeks was our longest visit, so doing a less than 48 hour visit was kind of an interesting experience. Because on the one hand, I was really, really excited and happy, and it was really fun, and just like a great time, like a little getaway and nice to have kind of a breakup of the monotony of just work all the time.
Laura: But on the other hand it was like our first visit where it was so short and it was just kind of like a day and half, maybe two days worth of time together. It was funny, I was kind of contemplating after he dropped me off at the airport just because the last time I had left, I didn’t really handle it very well. It was the end of the summer and it was kind of like now we’re not going to be able to see each other that often because he doesn’t have a very flexible schedule. So the last time I had left, I was really, really upset about it and actually kind of the week after I got home, I was feeling really down and just I don’t know. This sounds a little silly because it’s not something you should get so upset about. I should be happy that I’m in a relationship. It’s a long distance relationship, which if anyone’s been in that situation, they know what the challenges are of that.
Kelsey: Mm hmm.
Laura: I had gotten home and I think it was a combination of things. I want to I mentioned this on another episode where I was just really, really sleep deprived.
Laura: Which for me, when I’m sleep deprived, I don’t just feel bad, my emotions just can’t handle life.
Kelsey: Yeah, right.
Laura: Everything makes me cry. I’m just super emotional when I’m really tired which is not my ideal circumstances. I don’t mind being a slightly more emotional person, but if I’m crying over nothing, that’s not great. It was a combination of being super tired and then also feeling I’d say like kind of frustrated with the situation as far as just knowing how long it’s going to take before things aren’t long distance.
I feel like this could apply to anything that people are struggling with where they’re like they really can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. Even if I know like okay, here’s the time when this ending, it just feels really far away. So I was kind hitting this point where I was like just feeling super down about it. It took some time, but I kind of got to the point where I was doing some journaling and just trying to recalibrate myself because it’s something that I try to live in a way that I focus on enjoying positive moments and kind of cultivating gratitude, and all that woo-woo stuff.
Laura: Then also if I am dealing with a challenge, like my Christian faith is kind of a big part of how I deal with the challenges that I experience, but also just being able focus on the positives so that the negatives are either more manageable or that they don’t take up as mental space. Because I feel when negative stuff is happening or challenges are happening, if you’re so focused on the negatives, that that just totally changes how you feel just emotionally and physically.
Kelsey: Sure, yeah.
Laura: I had posted something on Instagram, actually it was yesterday, about this piece of jewelry that I have from a company called “Mantra Band” and it’s a little rose gold bangle that I’ve had for 2 years at this point. But it has a mantra on it that says “this too shall pass” and I had written a little bit about why that was meaningful to me. Basically that saying is applying to both positive and negative things in your life. So if you think about going through a tough time, or having negative emotions, or feeling frustrated that’s happening either in your life, or your life, or anything that’s going on really, for most people there’s going to be a time where that negative event actually does pass. If they have an illness, a lot of people can recover and get through that illness.
Kelsey: Mm hmm.
Laura: Or if you’re doing something like what I’m doing and you know okay there’s this limited amount of time that’s this is going to be an issue, so I can get through it, it’ll pass. That sentiment kind of helps dealing with problems, or frustrations, or challenges.
Laura: But I almost feel like the flip side of the coin is almost more important to me at least where it’s something that the positive things in life are also transient.
Kelsey: Yeah, like fleeting.
Laura: Right, and especially when I travel I always kind of have this in the back of my mind to really experience everything as much as I can, and be present, and really feel the positive emotions that are being generated from the experience of being in another country, or doing things that l love to do, that kind of stuff. For me I almost feel like the focusing on those moments where things are really good, even if it’s things that are also happening at the same time as bad stuff, because obviously life is not binary where it’s either good or bad.
Laura: Usually there’s things happing that aren’t great at the same time as there’s positive things happening. Just being able to really fully mentally engage in the positive stuff that’s happening I think has been really important for dealing with most things in my life that come up. Just especially this past weekend being able to really kind of focus on this because I could have gone into the weekend like oh no, it’s only 40 hours of time, it’s going to be so short, and oh it’s already halfway done. And I could have been looking at all the negatives about I’m going to have to leave soon and blah, blah, blah.
I feel like this trip I really just focused on the positive of being there, and being at the concert, and being able to have quality time with my boyfriend. Even when I left, yeah, I was upset, but because I had been so positive, and grateful, and just really soaking up all the moments that I could during that time, I felt like I was able to handle the end of it a lot better.
Laura: I just kind of like got home and I feel like this week I’ll have more what they call a like full cup of positive emotions to get through the week of work that I have to do.
Laura: Anyway, this is kind of a long ramble, but even though mine is more related to personal life challenges, and positive things, and lots of changes that have been going on for me in the last couple months, I also feel like this could apply to people that are dealing with health issues. Even if the health issue doesn’t seem to have to have an endpoint or you don’t see that light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to getting though a health issue, I do think that focusing on the joyful moments of life and really cherishing and being grateful for those moments can really make such a huge difference when you’re dealing with the struggles.
Laura: It just gives you a lot of perspective and it allows you build up those positive emotions so that when you are feeling the frustration, you’re not just like working from an empty emotional bank, if that makes sense.
Kelsey: I think thinking that way makes you also be in a sense almost grateful for the negative aspects too because I was in a long distance relationship too with my husband too because we were high school sweethearts and he was older than me so he went to college before I did. In that scenario it’s like you can be grateful that you are apart for a time because it actually can kind of make things sort of exciting in a way too. It’s like wow, I get to see you for this short amount of time and it’s really exciting. Even though it sucks to go home, it’s awesome to have that time together and it just almost makes you grateful for that period of time because you know that there’s an end to that, that you’re going to be together at some point. Just sort of enjoying the novelty of that situation, that long distance relationship.
I think that applies to health too because if you have an illness and even though again that’s not a great thing, I would definitely say in general most people think of that as a negative. In a way it can make you more grateful for things that at one point you took for granted in your life. It can be a positive, the illness itself in a way too. I think it’s just important to really pay attention the joyful moments in life and know that, like you said, they’re fleeting, but they’re amazing, so we need to live in the present. Thank you for sharing that, Laura. I think that’s a really awesome lesson for everybody to think about.
Today we have a really amazing guest, Dr. Scott A. Mills. But before we jump into that interview, here is a word from our sponsor.
Laura: Alright. I’m excited to introduce our guest for today’s show. Dr. Scott A. Mills is a chiropractor with a passion for empowering others with the knowledge and tools needed to eliminate pain and improve the way they move. He spent 6 years as a collegiate certified athletic trainer and has served thousands of patients across various practice settings for 15 years. Scott is regularly creating resources and programs like “The 2 Minute Fix” and “The Full Body Fix” to help people reach their maximum health potential by unlocking the physician within. He is located in San Francisco with his wife Diane Sanfilippo. You can find him at DrScottAMills.com. We just had your wife on a couple weeks ago and it’s cool to have you on now. Welcome, Scott!
Scott: Thanks for having me.
Laura: Absolutely. I know we’re familiar with your work a lot of times through Diane Sanfilippo, but some of our listeners might not be so familiar with you. Do you want to just give us a quick introduction to who you are and what got you into some of these online programs that have created for chiropractic care?
Scott: Yeah, absolutely. I just wanted to say thanks again for having me. I always love jumping on a chatting chiropractic, and health, and movement, and all that good stuff.
Scott: I’m looking forward to this. As you guys already said in the intro, my name is Dr. Scott Mills. I’m a chiropractor and one of my big things that I’ve been doing for a long time is trying to get people moving better and using conservative care, non-drug, non-surgical ways to get back to moving better and getting out of pain. First obviously as a chiropractor is seeing patients in person. I’ve been doing that for a long time and as my bio said I originally started out in life as an athletic trainer. I’ve been working with folks for a long time.
One of the things honestly that happened that got me kind of shifted toward doing some online stuff was I was working with my patients and lot of these athletes I was working with, this is when I was in New Jersey at a Cross Fit gym, they were very motivated to help themselves. They were always asking me, what can I do at home? What exercises are best for this? I would send them some links, or a handout, or something like that. Then eventually I just got to the point where I was really wanting to create my own resource so I could send people to the exact exercises and things that I know that work well for 15 years of doing this.
I started basically by creating “The 2 Minute Fix” as you mentioned which is just free You Tube resource that I was just doing really quick here’s my favorite low back exercise, or here’s my glute activation exercise, here’s something for IT band, or whatever. It just kind of kept building that library so then I was starting to send my patients those videos instead of some random from the internet.
Laura: Right, somebody else’s.
Scott: Yeah. The response was overwhelming so that’s when I decided to kind of shift gears and turn it into “The Full Body Fix” which is the online program. It’s more robust, more complete for all of the conditions that I’ve helped people through over the 15 years of doing this.
Laura: Yeah, awesome. I’ve had some variety of experiences working with my own mobility and pain issues. I was on volleyball team in college for about a year and a half so I had a little bit of experience working with the athletic trainer when I was dealing with some random injuries that come up when you’re doing 3 hours a day of playing sports or working out.
Laura: Then more recently, I was in a …I say a minor car accident…but for the injuries that I had it didn’t seem as minor as it was. Just dealing with some whiplash primarily that I was seeing a local chiropractor for to get a lot of these treatment options that we’re going to talk about today, to do those. Then also doing some work at home to kind of recover from that and then also prevent future reactivation of that injury, which I didn’t realize was such a big deal until one day experienced that for myself where my whiplash kind of reactivated when I was at the gym.
Laura: I think this stuff is really important as people get older not only if they’re training hard, but things happen obviously as time goes on, you can do things like get into accidents, or trip and fall, or something where you hurt yourself. If you don’t take care of that mobility and injury recovery appropriately, then a lot of this stuff can become chronic.
It’ll be really awesome to talk to you about what kind of things people can do at home. What are some of the most common injuries that you see in your clients? I know you use a lot of athletes, but are there injuries that come up even if somebody’s not a Cross Fitter?
Scott: Yeah, absolutely. I’ll give you the top three. Low back pain in general, but specifically sacroiliac joint pain. Also I’d probably throw in when it comes to lower back pain, L5, S1, that area, the last joint in the spine or the base of the spine, that tends to be a very problematic area for us as humans in general. So those are definitely the top ones. Shoulder should be next, so shoulder impingement syndrome or just general pain, and instability, and immobility.
Kelsey: What is a shoulder impingement syndrome? I don’t think I’ve heard of that, so just to clarify.
Scott: No problem, that’s a great question. Generally this is kind of the term that anything that somebody would be diagnosed with anytime there’s pain at the top of the shoulder during overhead reaching or lifting. The big problem and the big thing that I talk about a lot with this is…so the impingement is actually on a specific tendon of a muscle called the supraspinatus and it’s at the top, like I said, of the shoulder, but actually most of the dysfunction is happening kind of underneath and deep into the joint itself.
A lot of times pain therapies and things like that are targeted at the site of pain, but the problem often lies elsewhere. It’s kind of what we’re really good at when it comes to sports chiropractic work is trying to get to the root cause of the problem. That’s why I talk a lot about root cause analysis trying to get back to the source of the problem, not just treat the pain.
Laura: An impingement doesn’t necessarily just cause pain, right? It can also cause inability to do certain movements at a higher weight I would say.
Scott: Yeah, one of the things that happens is that you’re getting some compression in on the tendon so then compression creates a couple of things. One, inflammation which is going to create more pain. Then also a restriction of movement, as you just said.
Laura: Yeah, I may have that situation with my overhead press. I might have to watch some of your videos on shoulder impingement. What was the third one that you see happening a lot?
Scott: Neck pain and headaches.
Laura: Okay. Is that more of a posture issue? Or is that something that is caused by actual injuries?
Scott: Yeah, definitely. I think especially in our modern society where we’re tending to be a little bit too static, we’re sitting, looking down. We kind of joke a little bit, ha-ha, about “tech neck” as sort of a thing that’s going around now as far as the terminology, but it’s true. If you look around, everyone’s looking down at their smartphones with full neck flexion and it’s creating actually quite a problem.
Laura: Yeah, I would imagine.
Scott: Posture plus injuries of course, something like you were talking about a whiplash injury or sports injuries where there’s a sprain or strain to the soft tissues or joints. But yeah, posture is a big one too.
Laura: Great. I know that you talk a lot about something called soft tissue adhesions in your work. Can you describe to our listeners what those are and what causes them?
Scott: Yeah, definitely. One of the techniques I’ve specialized in, I’ve been certified for over 10 years in Active Release Technique. And we’re going to talk about that coming up, but kind of important to note that because the whole goal of Active Release Technique, or ART for short, is to identify and remove soft tissue adhesions or scar tissue. Soft tissue adhesion could be thought of as if you think about it on the outside of the body, if you had a cut that healed with that kind of white scar tissue, it’s inflexible, it’s basically disorganized collagen. Essentially that stuff that you see on the outside, that can also happen on the inside of our soft tissues. When these adhesions form, and we’ll talk about the three main causes in a second, they gunk up the motion. They basically prevent you from moving through that full range of motion. They also disturb relative motion between structures. For example, I’m thinking about something sort of easy, if you think about your hamstrings, there’s actually three muscles in the back of the thigh and often times especially in the inside two, it can get soft tissue adhesions developing between those two muscles and then they stop moving properly or sliding next to each other.
What we do with Active Release Technique, or ART, is go in and try to manual break up those scar tissue adhesions to restore proper motion. The three main causes, to answer the other part of your question, one would be posture actually as we were just talking about. Poor posture actually decreases circulation to those tissues and can stimulate production of scar tissue. Acute injury would be the other one. The classic example is sort of I was sprinting and my hamstring just strained and tore some muscle fibers. The body’s going to naturally lay down some scar tissue there to try to stabilize that area. And that’s fine for a time, but it can turn into a chronic injury. Then the third is repetitive strain injury. Kind of the classic example here would be carpal tunnel syndrome, something like that where you’re consistently doing the same thing over and over again and then that can actually develop some scar tissue adhesions in different areas as well.
Laura: Can you just define what soft tissue is for our listeners?
Scott: Yea, sure. That’s just anything that’s not bone basically.
Laura: Okay, so it’s more than just muscle potentially.
Scott: Muscle, tendon, and then ligaments, and then also we have to throw in fascia. Fascia is that thin fibrous connective tissue that surrounds muscle and kind of keeps it from going everywhere.
Laura: The adhesions can happen anywhere either inside the muscle, outside the muscle?
Scott: Yeah. Anywhere in and between all those structures.
Laura: Okay. You were talking a little bit about your primary method for dealing with those is being Active Release Technique, or ART. Can you describe that a little bit to us what that is and how that works differently than something like foam rolling or mobility or any of those exercises people tend to do for those either injuries or immobility.
Scott: Yeah, I love to talk about that, for a long time.
Laura: Well let’s do it!
Scott: Alright. The basic technique for Active Release Technique, the basic difference is that one, we’re moving the structure from a shortened position to a lengthened position. I know we’re on a podcast here, so it’s a little hard to do. Let’s try to visualize kind of your bicep. If you flex your elbow or bend your arm, that’s shortening that bicep, right? The contractile tissues are coming closer together. If you straighten your arm and extend the elbow, that tissue is lengthening. The whole key to breaking up these scar tissue adhesions is being able to shorten that tissue, lock onto it with a strong, firm, specific contact, which we do this with our hands manually, and then lengthen that structure under our contact.
That kind of combination is the magic as far as just really is super quick and effective. We can get things to release in 5 passes, not 50 treatments. It’s really fast, really effective. That’s the basic concept behind Active Release Technique. We’ve been doing this for a long time and they keep kind of adding, the guys that created it in Colorado Springs, Dr. Leahy, he keeps adding new things and they keep finding new ways to do things even better. It’s kind of neat. We have to stay certified, every year go back and recertify, which I know some people probably think is a pain in the butt. It actually keeps us really fresh and keep learning new techniques and new ways to treat things even better.
Laura: Yeah, well it sounds like a lot of health care practitioners would benefit from having recertification processes.
Laura: Not that I would love to get recertified as a nutritionist, but I can see the benefit. I’m kind of imagining this as being something that if you’re holding down on a specific point and preventing the muscle from…I’m not a chiropractor, so this could be totally wrong…but preventing the muscle form fully extending it would normally, does that just pull apart the scar tissue?
Scott: You’re on the right track. You’re not really preventing the full range of motion. You actually want the structure to go through the full range. The contact is, like I said, it’s firm and specific, but it’s enough to allow the motion. I kind of like to think of it as kind of a combination between stretching and firm massage. But there’s no motion on the contact. The contact stays static.
Scott: There’s not sliding.
Scott: You’re doing the motion as the patient. I tell my patients you’re going to get a little workout in today.
Laura: Yeah. I feel I’m pretty sure the chiropractor that I was seeing was doing that. Just imagining what she would do where I move into a position, she’d hold down on a specific joint, or tendon, or something, and then I would move back and forth.
Laura: Sounds like that was a similar, if not the same technique.
Why is that more effective than something like foam rolling or using a lacrosse ball to roll out a muscle like a lot of us will do for dealing with that kind of stuff?
Scott: I’m glad you asked. The thing with foam rolling…let’s talk about foam rolling first, especially for something like IT band tendonitis or IT band syndrome. The IT band is on the outside of the leg. It goes all the way down toward the knee. A lot of runners will deal with irritation, or pain, or inflammation on the outside of the knee and they’re told just foam roll that IT band all the way up the side of your leg and that’ll fix it. But I’ve seen this a lot and it doesn’t seem like it ever works. I don’t know why the recommendation keeps getting passed along.
A couple things, one, the very simple part when comparing it to something like Active Release Technique is there’s no shortening to lengthening happening usually. You’re just sort of mashing soft tissue with a lacrosse ball or foam roller, which can stimulate some blood flow and can loosen up the fascia to an extent. I’m not saying it’s not beneficial at all, but without that shortening to lengthening motion with the firm and specific contact, and that’s the other part of it, foam rollers are very broad in its contact. Where when a practitioner who knows what they’re looking for can lock on that specific spot that adhesed, it can be a lot more quick and effective.
The other component to this is kind of drawing back to what I already talked about with root cause analysis. Most of the IT band in this case and this scenario that I made up, most of the IT band syndromes and problems, that’s the symptom, not the root cause of the problem. A lot of times these lateral stabilizers start to get overactive and irritated, but what’s the root cause of the problem? A lot of times it’s for example, glute inactivity or glute amnesia, which some people may be familiar with where because we sit all day, our big hip extensors, our gluteus maximus, medius, and minimus are no longer firing properly and that’s translating a lot of force and biochemical problems into our knees and other places. That’s when you get the symptom, but the symptom is not necessarily the whole story.
Laura: Right. That’s something that applies to nutrition and lifestyles factors as well.
Laura: It’s like this the symptom that’s coming up, and there might be something you can do to reduce the symptom, but you’re not really treating the root cause doing that. Would you say foam rolling is helpful in some ways, but not fixing the root problem? Or is it just not even effectively doing anything?
Scott: I think it’s fine for maintenance, maintenance work if you want to just kind of keep blood flow moving, keep the fascia stretched a little bit, maybe do some warm up things, and things like that. But just kind of thinking about it, like I said, from a specific contact standpoint and also from not getting that kind of full range of motion, I think preventative, not necessarily a treatment. I’ll put it that way.
Laura: Right. I would say foam rolling seems to be one of the things that’s pretty easy as far as technique is concerned.
Laura: I’ll admit it to myself too that when I go to the gym and I’m foam rolling, I’m just like this just feels really good. I don’t know if I’m actually doing anything. It’s just funny because my trainer sometimes if we’re doing a movement and I’m not getting really good mobility or like I said, I think I have a little bit of shoulder impingement. I don’t know if it’s from my car accident or if it’s more just from posture issues, or I’m sure there’s a combination of things happening. But it’s funny how sometimes he’ll have me do some mobility exercises that I’ll go from not being able to do a certain weight with an overhead press to then I’m able to do it just because we had done some stuff that…I’m not sure if It’s ART. He’s not a chiropractor, so I’m assuming he doesn’t know ART specifically. But there may be some things that he has seen similar to it that we do because a lot of times we are holding things down and moving. Anyway, I think it is interesting to see how much of a difference that can make to just the workout in general when you have that mobility that’s actually improved as opposed to just kind of like you said, mashing the muscle which doesn’t necessarily really do anything.
Laura: Now what about mobility stretching or joint mobility, that kind of stuff. Is that something helpful before a workout as well? Or is that kind of not dealing with the problem the way that the foam rolling seems to be?
Scott: Yeah. It’s a good question. Talking about pre-activity warm-up drills and things like that, I have a couple of different thoughts on this. I don’t know that I’m 100% right, but it seems to work for me and that seems to work for my clients. A couple of things is I don’t like to do actually deep extended soft tissue work prior to intense physical activity. If you ever had a deep tissue massage for an hour or a half hour even, you don’t really feel like working out after, right?
Scott: It’s sort of a relaxation thing that happens there. That’s for a couple of different reasons. But I think deep soft tissue work is best used actually once you’re already warm and in a post-workout setting where you’ve already warmed up the muscle from inside and now you can get in there and do some additional work. I prefer dynamic warm ups. It’s kind of what I recommend which is kind of the standard things like basically work up to so you’re sweating before you’re lifting, if that makes sense.
Laura: Mm hmm.
Scott: Whether you doing a bunch of burpees and then mixing in some stretching and mobility work alongside that, that’s fine. But yeah, saving the deep soft tissue stuff for after I think is a better solution.
The other thing I really like doing, and I do this all the time for myself, is doing a lot of stability work actually before working out. What I mean by that is just kind of getting the muscles firing. If I’m on squat day, I’ll do a bunch of maybe slow decent step downs where I’m really trying to get my glutes activated. Maybe I’ll throw a band around my knees and do some banded squats or banded slides to try to get everything just kind of firing that I want working during that workout session. Same thing for the upper back and neck, like doing a lot of scapular traction where you’re trying to pull your shoulder blades together, or doing some resistant band overhead pressing before you’re doing the bar pressing.
Things like that where you’re actually get that neurology firing, getting those muscles turned on and activated, I like that before exercise more so than doing the deep soft tissue or even really deep mobility work.
Kelsey: Yeah. I have to say that’s one thing that my coach currently, I was having some knee pain on the outside of my knee when I was doing squats. I just started weight lifting in the last three months and this is happening. He had me do, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the sling shot, Scott.
Kelsey: Yeah, it’s basically the band that goes around your knees and doing squats with that before I would actually do weighted squats to really get those muscles firing actively and really engaging all the muscles that should be engaging. And that really cleared up all of the pain or just like discomfort that I was experiencing in squats. I thought that was really cool. I never would have thought about that before.
Scott: Poof, just like magic, it works.
Laura: Amazing. This is actually a kind of random question. Something that I’ve noticed just speaking about squatting, occasionally I’ll have the weird clicking in my knee when I’m squatting in a certain position. Is that something that can be benefitted from something like ART or is that more of like just finding the right position for my anatomy.
Scott: Probably both.
Scott: It’s possible that there’s something like a soft tissue adhesion or something in the tendon that’s kind of giving you some tracking issues on the kneecap that’s causing that noise. Anytime there’s clicking in the knee though we also have to use a little bit of caution differential diagnosis and make sure you’re not having a meniscus issue. That’s the cartilage in between the bones.
Laura: Yeah. It’s funny, it’s like well I can’t ask personal questions because you’re like well I really need to see your knee.
Laura: Same thing when we have questions about nutrition.
Laura: It’s like well, we really need to see what you’re actually eating, but here’s some general information.
Scott: For sure.
Laura: One of the things that I saw on your site was you had talked about something called nerve flossing, that and glute amnesia. I’m like these are such interesting things. What is nerve flossing and what conditions does that process benefit?
Scott: Sure, that’s a great one. Let’s talk about sciatica. Most people are familiar with that term at least. Sciatica is any irritation to the sciatic nerve which is kind of a bundle of nerve roots that come out from our low back and then kind of go through the hip and down the legs. If anybody’s ever had sciatica, they are definitely familiar with this feeling of pain, burning, shooting pain down the leg. It’s terrible. I had it myself back when was in my 20s.
Nerve flossing is a technique that you have to kind of think of these nerves as one long kind of spaghetti noodle, and they don’t have a lot of stretch to them, and they’re piercing or going near soft tissue the whole way. We already talked about soft tissues structures, muscles, tendons, ligaments. One of the most common causes actually of in this case sciatica is that nerve getting caught up in the soft tissue somewhere down the track. If you sort of picture this long track of nerves going all the way from your back down to your foot, it can get caught up or stuck in any position or in any structure along the way.
The nerve flossing technique is basically a way to sort of roto-rooter the nerve back and forth through those structures to clear them up from any problems. This technique is actually best used in conjunction with an Active Release Technique or some hands on care to know exactly where that adhesion is and where the compression and entrapment is happening.
Laura: Mm hmm.
Scott: When that nerve gets entrapped, that’s when you get symptoms or compressed. The flossing basically is just a way move through range of motion kind of very specifically, and I teach this in my videos, basically dragging that nerve back and forth, back and forth through the track to try to free it up from any adhesion or entrapment.
Laura: Now is that something that would cause someone pain if they have a sciatica issue?
Scott: Sciatica is in nature, it’s painful, so yeah.
Laura: Right. But, so doing that process is painful?
Scott: Oh, actually I talk about that in the video a little bit. If it’s actually very painful, then it’s probably an indication that you shouldn’t be doing that flossing technique. It actually should feel good when you’re doing it or just after. If that motion is painful, then you may actually have something else going on like a disc herniation in the low back.
Laura: Yeah. I think that’s the hard part is kind of figuring out where if you have pain or discomfort during these exercises, where’s that line between okay, this is supposed to be a little uncomfortable and not feel great versus actually you should stop because this is causing either more harm or just this isn’t normal.
Scott: I think’s that a good point. That’s why I do always recommend any of the stuff I put out online, you’re welcome to try it out on your own, but it’s always going to be best in conjunction with a trusted provider.
Scott: I say that literally on every video. I’m like make sure you’re consulting a provider because that’s why we do what we do, that’s why we know what we know to be able to differentially diagnose to say hey, this is right for you, and this one is not right for you. It’s a very important point.
Kelsey: I’m going to throw out another personal question that you probably can’t answer, but it might be useful.
Scott: Skype consultation, yay!
Kelsey: Might be useful to someone else who’s experiencing something similar. What happens to me is I’ll be doing squats or overhead pressing and if I’m doing a higher rep scheme, say like 8 or 10 reps, I will suddenly get this like my hand will go numb because it’s like pinching a nerve or something, or on a nerve. My coach and everybody else that I’ve talked to about it is just like yeah, it’s a pinched nerve, kind of like just work it out with foam rolling of course are some of the ideas there. But I’m sure other people have these kind of things. You just get this weird, it’s not even pain, but just like something feels odd. I was wondering if you had any thoughts. Is that something that nerve flossing would be beneficial for or are there other things to think about in a case like that?
Scott: I do have an upper extremity nerve flossing one as well. I specifically kind of target it at carpel tunnel type syndrome issues, but it’s the same idea. If you think about the nerve roots coming from your neck which come off your spinal cord, they go through a bunch of muscles, the scalenes, and down through your shoulder. So there’s muscles all the way down through there that could be just tight and clamping down on that nerve root or on the nerve itself and causing that numbness or tingling in the hand. But there could also be an adhesion specifically that’s built up from repetitive use or just from posture, etc. like we talked about that could benefit from some hands on care.
Kind of the rule of thumb here on this stuff is if you’re having that same…and this isn’t necessarily just talking to you, but our listeners…if you’re having the same pain over and over again, it’s a pretty good chance it’s just not going to go away on its own unattended.
Kelsey: Right, wishful thinking.
Scott: Yeah, time to get some professional help. But yeah, anytime there’s numbness like that, you are getting some nerve compression. So the question then is where is it coming form.
Scott: And you can certainly try something like the upper extremity nerve flocking technique and see if it clears up.
Kelsey: It’s interesting because I can feel where it comes from my shoulder. I can actually feel where it starts. Maybe I’ll have to try some of that nerve flossing.
Scott: Do that, and if it doesn’t work, find an ART provider. You can do that ActiveRelease.com, there’s a provider search by zip code and you can find someone in your area.
Laura: Awesome. This is another random question but with active release technique. And it’s not for me necessarily.
Scott: Oh, no?
Laura: Well, it’s actually it’s about my boyfriend actually. He’s an ex track athlete. He was a decathlete in college and he can’t touch his toes. And it’s not painful, he just literally can’t touch his toes. I don’t know is that something that active release could actually improve? Or at this point is it like well too late, you’re in your 30’s, that’s not happening anytime soon.
Scott: There’s a little bit of a congenital or genetic component to flexibility. Some people are just naturally more mobile or flexible. But I definitely have worked with athletes like that and have been able to improve their flexibility or mobility. I actually have an article at DrScottAMills.com, it’s free to download. I think the title is “Why Stretching Your Hamstrings Isn’t Working And What To Do Instead.” There’s some reasons for that, basically like we already talked about. If he did a lot of track type athletics, it’s pretty good chance there’s some scar tissue or old injuries sitting in those hamstrings that could be released with some manual therapy. That could really help.
The other one is actually kind of back to what we were just talking about with nerve flossing, which is sometimes the nerves that are going down the back of the legs, part of the sciatic nerves group, if they’re adhesed, you don’t always have sciatica symptoms. You don’t necessarily always have pain. If there’s tension though on that nerve, our bodies are really smart and they know that they nerves are delicate so they actually will reflexively contract those muscles to keep us out of that range of motion. You can stretch, and stretch, and stretch and never get anymore mobility. And partly it’s might be because those nerves are trying to protect you from hurting them.
Scott: So there’s definitely a couple things that I definitely would address with that. If it was my athlete in my office, I’d do a combination of chiropractic adjustments to the lower back and then do some manual therapy there to the hamstrings and hips.
Laura: Well that’s something that your “Full Body Fix” program, maybe I’ll get him access to that as a gift. Is that’s something that would be helpful for that kind of issue where it’s like an immobility concern?
Scott: Yeah, that’s a perfect example where you can not only pair up with a practitioner but also have a resource for yourself at home to get you honest with and keep you accountable to doing some work. I have a hamstring mobility protocol in there of 4 or 5 of my favorite exercises for that, and I have the sciatica flossing technique, for example.
Laura: Nice. Yeah, he lives in the middle of nowhere in Ohio, so I’m not sure he’s going to find a practitioner like you where he lives. But who knows?
But it’s interesting because I feel like just the experience I’ve had going through all the treatment for my car accident and then doing a lot more strength training over the last year plus, I do feel like my mobility, there’s parts of it that feel less mobile that it used to be when I was younger, but then there’s other parts that I feel more mobile and I don’t have the same injuries that I used to get even just recently I’d say. I used to have issues with my Achilles tendons would get really tight and painful when I was waking up in the morning. And then also right after my car accident when I couldn’t work out for like there months, I was getting a lot of hip pain from just walking. I would take my dog for like a 2 mile walk and I would have this really deep hip pain, and I was like what is going on? I think a lot of this mobility and stability improvements that we’re talking about and breaking up these adhesions, it’s not necessarily just going to fix an injury that you’re trying to fix, it could actually also help just other stuff that you weren’t even working on. That is what my experience was at least.
Scott: Yeah, I think that’s well said. The thing is I’m an athlete myself, I lift heavy, I ding myself up all the time, but I also do this stuff, a lot of the techniques that I teach, I use on myself as both treatment and maintenance type work. I think it’s really important for us to kind of schedule that into our workout, into our weekly plan. And that’s kind of what I say when you’re looking at your week and you say, okay, I’m going to lift these days, or I’m going to run these days, or I’m going to play tennis this day, but also make sure you’re scheduling in time to do some mobility stability work really everyday based on our modern lives just require us to do some much extra work on our own for these kind of physical issues.
Scott: I think it’s really important to schedule it into our weeks.
Laura: Yeah, it’s like we made our lives so easy that now we have to schedule time to make our lives harder so that way our bodies aren’t like falling apart.
Scott: Yeah, 100%.
Laura: Actually that kind of leads into a question that I’m sure some of our listeners were thinking. This is something that I always am curious about since I train with a trainer, he’ll do some mobility with me, but I think I can stand to do extra either outside of the session or right before, maybe getting there a little earlier. What are some of the mistakes you see people making when they’re warming up for their workouts and is there something that you suggest? Obviously you have these techniques that you show in your videos either “The 2 Minute Fix” or “The Full Body Fix,” but are there certain types of warm-ups that you think are definitely not good ideas to do before a training session? And if there’s better ideas, what are some of those?
Scott: First I would say the worst one you can do is nothing at all.
Scott: Going into doing whatever you doing, cold is usually not a good idea.
Laura: Mm hmm.
Scott: The other mistake, and we kind of already touched on this is doing I think a lot of deep tissue work right before intense physical activity, I don’t think that’s a good idea either. And like I said before, I think the best way is just to kind of do a lot of dynamic type stability work where you’re doing enough to work up a little bit of a sweat, get the temperature up in your internal core and muscle temperature, get that rising and then make sure doing a little bit a mobility work, maybe some targeted stuff. Say you’re dealing with a shoulder, maybe spend five minutes with a band and doing some banded stretching or some work to try to activate the muscles in and around whatever problem area you’re dealing with. Or if you know you’re doing a pressing day, make sure you’re doing some chest and back stuff prior to activity. Those are probably the big three points.
Laura: Now I don’t know if this is a myth or not, but I’ve heard that doing intense stretches, not yoga necessarily, but when people stretch before running or stretch before working out and they’re basically working on pulling the muscles pretty hard before that workout, I’ve heard that that’s not good to do because you end up getting less, I’m trying to think of how to describe it
Scott: Less muscle activation?
Laura: Yeah, it’s almost like your stretching it out and then you’re trying to do all these contractions and you’re contracting as effectively as you would have if you hadn’t stretched. Is that total BS, or is that a legitimate thing?
Scott: I think there is actually a little something to that. It kind of goes back to my point about not doing deep tissue work and it’s sort of the same concept. There’s actually mechanoreceptors in and around our muscles and tendons. If you stimulate them too much, it can actually produce a relaxation effect on the muscle, so you sort of dumb them down before activity which is not really what you’re looking for.
Laura: Mm hmm.
Scott: That’s why I do sort of lean toward just doing overall full body dynamic work. Whether like I said it’s like a rotation of maybe air squats, pushups, and sit-ups where you’re kind of hitting everything, but not really any one thing. I think that’s kind of the best route to go, and kind of leave the really intense mobility and soft tissue work for after your workout.
Scott: Or on an off day.
Laura: Right. It would seem like doing those active movements where if you’re doing a push up or an air squat, that you could potentially prevent going into a heavier movement when you’re physically not feeling up for it. Say you’re doing a pushup and your feeling some pain, maybe that means that doing a heavy bench press that day isn’t necessarily going to be a great idea. Is that true? Or does the warm-up kind of prepare you for making the right decisions with your workout?
Scott: I definitely us my warm up as a decision maker on kind of what I’m maybe I’m going to do that day. I usually have a plan, but you have to listen to your body. I think that’s something I teach my patients a lot is to listen to the body and don’t ignore it if you’re feeling pain, don’t ignore it if you’re feeling just off. Maybe make an ad lib plan for the day and have a backup plan to maybe the schedule or your trainer says it’s time to go to do a three rep max but your body is not having it that day. Let’s make a new plan and stay out of injury because that’s the worst is getting setback.
Laura: Right. I think that’s what I like about training one on one so much is that when I’m in a group program or something like Cross Fit, or a group coaching class, I think it’s harder to either listen to your own body or speak up when you’re not feeling like something’s the right thing for you. Which I know not everyone struggles with that, but I know a lot of people do have a hard time kind of going against the grain when they’re in a group program.
Scott: Yeah, peer pressure.
Laura: Right. You just get into that competition mode and like oh I’m going to just do it, and obviously that can lead to injury. So that’s one thing I really like about one on one stuff is if I feel like something isn’t working, I’ll just be like, nope, we’re not doing this. My trainer is like, alright, let’s do something. It’s definitely something I think should apply to group coaching, but different gyms will have different levels of I guess peer pressure and whether or not someone feels comfortable doing that.
Laura: Something I’ve seen on your Facebook page recently is you I guess posed a question/made a statement that you thought that building stability would be more important for health and fitness than building mobility. Can you describe that a little bit for our listeners what you meant and why you think that?
Scott: Yeah. I was sort of making an argument that for example if you could only choose one, which would I choose? And I would definitely choose stability. Here’s the argument for that: When we say stability basically we’re talking about creating the right series of muscular contractions across a joint. Let’s talk about shoulder stability, for example. The shoulder is a super mobile joint, but you have to have a lot of coordination of movement to make sure the thing doesn’t basically sublux or dislocate during any kind of motion. If I’m choosing between just improving the range of motion in that joint or trying to improve the muscular contraction or stability across a joint, I’m going to choose stability every time because you can always mobilize from a position of stability. But if you’re trying to mobilize before you have stability you can actually be created hypermobility or too much motion which could actually set you up for injury.
Scott: That was kind of my overall take on it. It seems the folks chiming in sort of seemed to agree, but that were also sort of saying well yeah, but do both. Which I agree.
Laura: Yeah, no one is saying it’s black or white.
Scott: Right. The whole program, my “Full Body Fix” program is basically designed around 3 things, stability, mobility, and self soft tissue adhesion removal as much as possible. Which I always am quick to say it’s limited, but there are some things we can do.
Scott: I definitely think both, but I also think mobilizing from a position of stability is a much wiser way to go.
Laura: Yeah. I had this experience I guess it was a couple months ago when I was doing more yoga. I was actually doing a lot of yoga and then also doing my strength training. I was starting to get low back pain I’d say mostly when doing deadlifts. I think a big part of it was I was getting all this back mobility and doing a ton of upward dog, downward dog, doing all this kind of bending in my lower back. Then I don’t think I was building enough core stability really to kind of stabilize my back during a heavier lift like the deadlifts.
I had I guess taken a couple of months break from yoga and the back pain has like 95% gone away. It’ll just kind of come back once and while if I’m like sitting in a weird position for too long like in plane or if I’m driving super far. But that was something interesting that I never really thought about over-flexibility and that potentially causing issues especially if you’re also trying to build strength.
Kelsey: Yeah, that’s me.
Laura: I tend to be over-flexible as well, too. There’s benefits sometimes as far as being able to do certain things, but sometimes it also causes problems with strength and being able to kind of hold the position under a load.
Laura: That’s been good to work on and I can definitely see how that can help prevent injury more than flexibility might.
Scott: Yeah, I think the other thing I just will chime in here one last thought on this topic is basically, my post was in response to kind of what I see is a general trend toward mobility, like that’s all you hear about. Everyone is always like mobilize, mobilize, mobilize, foam roll, foam roll, stretchy band, stretchy band. But I don’t hear a lot of people saying let’s work on muscular contraction, motor control, stability, all these things are sort of synonymous, but basically making sure our muscles are firing in proper sequence. I think we could we can pay more attention to that.
Laura: Yeah, definitely. We obviously have talked about your program a few times on this show. How would you say a do-it-yourself program like “The Full Body Fix” compares to seeing a trained chiropractor in person?
Scott: Well, it doesn’t.
Laura: Well, that’s the answer to that question, right?
Scott: Here’s the thing, the reason to see a provider is a couple of things. One, a proper diagnosis. Diagnosis is king, and this is getting back to my root cause. When I say diagnosis, I don’t mean naming your symptoms in Latin, what I mean what is the root cause of the problem? That’s why you pay a provider the money.
Kelsey: Mm hmm.
Scott: Because that’s the expertise they have. They can say hey, I’ve looked at your movement, I’ve done a soft tissue screen, I’ve felt your joint motion, I’ve watched you move and these are the symptoms you’re having, this is the differential diagnosis, here’s what I think we need to target. That’s king, that’s everything. That’s why you see a provider to get the proper root cause analysis, aka diagnosis.
A program like mine, like “The Full Body Fix” is accessory work. It’s something that you can take home with you that is a reminder that you can print out. I have downloadable, printable guides that you can put on your fridge, or your mirror, or whatever you’re going to look at to remind yourself to do these things every day. That’s really the accountability side of things. I can’t be there as a provider for my patients in their homes making sure they’re doing the work I want them to do, and that’s kind of where this program comes in.
I do think it’s best to do these kind of things with somebody who can look at a program and say okay, this looks good, make sure you do all these, maybe don’t do this one, maybe this one exercise out of a group of 5 or 6 in a protocol. That’s the combination I think is really powerful to get a trusted provider and right the homecare program to keep you accountable. I think it’s a perfect team.
Laura: Yeah, definitely. Now, if you do have an injury that you’re recovering from, is ART something that you have to do for life to keep that injury from re-exacerbating, or can you ever fully recover?
Scott: Once the adhesion is broken up and your body has sort of reabsorbed it, and the mobility and stability are returned, it doesn’t just like magically come back unless you’re doing the same thing that caused it in the first place.
Laura: Okay. That’s just interesting because like I said, I do have some leftover weirdness from my whiplash. One of things that happened I guess it was a good 6 plus months ago, I haven’t had any issues recently, but I wasn’t even doing anything that intense. I think I was doing like a TRX pushup or something and my arm just slipped a little bit and my head kind of bobbed forward a little harder than it should have and then that basically just reactivated the whole injury and I had to be like back on my muscle relaxers for a couple days.
Laura: That was something that I’m like I’m very careful about not getting myself into positions where that’s possible anymore. No TRX pushups.
Scott: In that scenario, I think the biggest thing to remember is that in a whiplash injury, you’re actually having structural disruption of those joints. If you think about our spine is 24 vertebrae stacked on top of each other. They’re connected with all these ligaments and have the cushion of the discs in between. But when you have a whiplash injury like that, that flexion extension can actually disrupt or tear ligaments. So this is all the way down at the joint level. We’re not talking about just a muscle strain, we’re talking about joint issues, joint dysfunction.
Scott: And then to pair on top of that any kind of ligament injury can take up to actually 6 months to fully recover. If you think about any kind of significant sprain like that to a joint can take a long time to heal, and not just heal, but then also rehab. And the rehabilitation side of things we’ve been talking about is really in my opinion in something like that so important to do a lot of follow up maintenance stability work in especially a neck injury like that.
Laura: Yeah. May have to make an appointment with my chiropractor to get a little check in again since it’s been I don’t know, a year and a half since things are generally pretty good, but I’m always a little concerned about doing anything that could reinjure it.
Laura: But anyway, I think one of last questions we wanted to ask you since this show tends to cover more diet and lifestyle factors than necessarily like specifically injury prevention, or injury recovery, or even workout recovery. But what on top of these ART type techniques, foam rolling, mobility, seeing a practitioner, are there any other lifestyle factors that you see affecting injury prevention and recovery from intense workouts?
Scott: Yes. Diet is huge obviously as you guys know and talk about. I always joke that kind of my best patients are the ones that are already eating well.
Scott: Because it’s super easy to get somebody who doesn’t have chronic inflammation from the inside out to reduce their pain. It just happens so much faster. Doing some anti-inflammatory dietary recommendations, or just general clean eating, things that we know from an ancestral standpoint that work for us as individuals as well as a species definately help or cut the recovery process.
The other thing I’ll just kind of throw in there is something I talk a lot about which is we know that one of things about health is in humans is that that we respond really well to adaptation and variety. What I mean is one of the definitions of health I really like is their ability to adapt to stressors without succumbing to disease. So whether that’s stressor that you’re applying to yourself is physical activity or recovery from an injury or something like that, our body really loves changing it up. It loves different things. I talk about this a lot with workouts because I see a lot of clients who are athletes and their sort of like, yeah, I’ve been doing x y z for 5 or 10 years. I’m like, well what else do you do? Well, that’s all I do. I’m like okay, it’s time to do something else. Or something in addition to it, right? I think we get stuck in ruts not only with our eating, but with our movement and we fall into these same sort of patterns. Then it’s not a surprise when things start to breakdown. I think it’s really important to add a lot of variety of movement and diet into our lifestyle to keep our body guessing.
Laura: Nice. Yeah, we talk about a variety a lot in our dietary recommendations.
Laura: So it’s cool to think about okay, where can you get some variety in your movement patterns as well so you’re not doing the same thing over and over all the time?
Laura: Well, anyway, this was super interesting, Scott.
Laura: Make me want to come make a trip to San Francisco and…
Scott: Come on out.
Laura: …get some diagnosis because I feel like I bet you can find some real interesting issues that I have from all the computer work, and the car accident, and I’m sure I have some weird movement patterns that I’ve developed over the years of working out on my own.
But anyway, we really appreciated your time today, and any recommendations for where our listeners can find more of your work if they’re interested?
Scott: Yeah, a couple things. The blog is DrScottAMills.com. You can find me on social media at “Full Body Fix” on Instagram and Twitter. I don’t really do too much on Facebook, but I’m there too, you can me at Dr. Scott A. Mills. The program that we’ve been referencing is FullBodyFix.com. That’s the premium version. The free version if you want to just get a freebie, you can go to the 2MinuteFixVideos.com. That should take you right to my You Tube channel. So all the 2 Minute Fixes are on You Tube for free. You can check them out first and then go buy the real thing.
Scott: Then the last thing I’ll is if anybody, any listeners are here in the San Francisco Bay area, I do see patients right here in the city. I’m taking new patients. You can find more about requesting an appointment with me at the blog at DrScottAMills.com. There’s a tab for requesting appointments.
Kelsey: I know, I’m jealous now that I’m not in San Francisco.
Laura: Well, you should have seen him when he was in New Jersey, Kelsey.
Kelsey: I should have.I missed my chance.
Scott: The window was only a one year window.
Laura: Actually, the funny thing, Scott, is I was in New Jersey last summer and I was visiting my friend in Hoboken and looking for a parking spot which is always a nice experience in Hoboken.
Scott: The worst.
Laura: I happened to park right in front of the office that you had I guess just recently had left.
Scott: I guess your sign was still there.
Laura: Was it still? The Plexus Performance Care was still up there?
Laura: Yeah, I mean I think so. It was back in July. Were you in New Jersey at that point last July?
Scott: Last July? Yeah, we had just moved, and we would have moved in August. So yeah, a couple of months later.
Laura: Yeah. It was funny because I was like, Dr. Scott, I know him! That’s so weird because I had literally had parked right in front of your office.
Scott: Yeah, right.
Laura: I should have come in to see if you were there. Well, anyway thanks again, Scott. We really appreciate you coming on and I know I learned a lot.
Laura: Now I’m going to have to buy your program and see if I can get things moving in the right direction again, physically.
Scott: Thanks so much for having me on, guys.
Laura: Yeah. It was great. Have a good rest of your day.
Scott: You too.
Laura: Hey everyone. Laura Schoenfeld here. Hope you enjoyed that interview as much as Kelsey and I enjoyed recording it. Scott’s got a really great offer for you if you’re interested in his “Full Body Fix” program. He set up a code for our listeners to get $10 off any purchase. If you use the code “Ancestral RDs” when you’re making a purchase at the Full Body Fix website, you’ll get $10 off any of the memberships. That code is “AncestralRDs” and that code is good for $10 off. Thanks so much, Scott!